Interview with Donna MacDonald-- September 28, 2017
Because of the importance of this interview, this is the full conversation. Usually, only excerpts are published in the hopes of one day including the full length versions in a non-fiction account. Donna MacDonald is a tall woman with an athletic build. She was a firefighter in Providence for fifteen years. She is also the first person outside of the Pawtucket Fire Department I've interviewed, so we had no working relationship. After her retirement due to cancer related issues, she came to speak to our department, and her impact was nearly instantaneous. Change in the fire service is never fast or welcomed, and our job is even worse. There are stories of air-packs being introduced in the 1950s and no one wearing them for the next decade. Change takes on a glacial pace. Donna changed all that. This is what she said ... TT- So why don't we go back to the beginning of your career. Tell us when you got on the job. DM- I got on in 2001. TT- And when did you serve until? DM- Until last year, so 2016. TT- Now, you're the first out-of-department person I've interviewed, so usually I know the people I'm speaking with, so this is gonna be--I mean the fire department is the fire department, no matter where you go. I think that you could probably attest to that, like the old saying goes, "Same circus, different monkeys." DM- Yes (laughs). TT- So when you first got on the job, where did you go? Where were you assigned originally? DM- I first went to rescue because I was a cardiac coming on the job, so I went immediately there. I had to do my six months time. So I actually ended up doing about nine months. TT- So like all new firemen, they usually find themselves on the rescue. DM- Yes. I did my nine months and then went to Engine 3, downtown, and I never left. TT- Wow. DM- I loved it there. TT- So nine months and then Engine 3. When you say downtown, are you talking about the Public Safety Complex? DM- Yes. Actually I did bounce around a bit before that but I ended up on Engine 3. TT- How many trucks are at that downtown station? DM- We have an engine, ladder, special hazards, a rescue, and a (Battalion) Chief. TT- So it's a big station. DM- Yes. TT- How many people are on the Providence Fire Department? DM- Five hundred. TT- Wow. Our job's 136-140. And you guys have a quarter of a million people to protect. I mean, Pawtucket's only got 80,000. So at Engine 3, I'm assuming you saw a lot highway stuff. DM- Yeah, I liked that engine company because we saw a lot of different things. It's the busiest engine in New England. We're doing about 5,000 runs a year. We do highway, we do high-rise, elevators, fires, EMS, so everything. Because we're centrally located we hit everything. TT- It sounds like you were satisfied being on the engine because you didn't go anywhere else. DM- No, I loved it there. I mean on overtime I'd do a ladder company. We would also cross-train downtown, so we would spend maybe a month on Ladder 1, learn everything about it, a month on Special Hazards, same thing, learn everything about it. And we're trained for every truck in the city. TT- So basically you're like us. You're trained to cross-man all apparatus. DM- Yes. TT- That's what we do as well. Everybody does everything. Now in your spot on the engine, could you be forced back to the rescue? DM- Yes, we'd get detailed every so often if they were short. TT- Yeah, we're doing that now because we're understaffed. It doesn't change. As a matter of fact, the rescue just gets more and more complicated. They finally switched us to computers. We didn't have computers until three years ago. DM- Same with us. TT- That's been a huge change, especially for the older guys that don't handle computers very well. Like me (laughs). DM- Yes. Having to hold that laptop and figure it all out--forget about it. I didn't want any part of it. TT- So basically, I found out about you through a program. You had come to our department. I had broken my leg, I was out, so I missed it. But I was told about what your presentation. And when I got back I was curious because everybody seemed to be talking about the same thing. Cancer. I think we all know the fire department is not really open to change too quickly. We get set in our ways. In what we think works best. Creatures of habit. I've only been on eight years, but guys still slept up in the dorm with their bunker gear at their feet. Also, the worse your gear looked, the harder you were as a worker. So I'm assuming your gear was just like everybody else's gear--completely trashed. Torched. Beat up. DM- And we didn't get new gear. I went ten years before I got a new set of gear. It had failed, but the city just wasn't buying new gear. So finally--and I was not compliant with NFPA because my top and bottom were not made by the same company. So basically they gave you whatever they had. It didn't fit me right, I wasn't compliant, it was falling apart. It was burnt, had holes in it, and so finally they fit us for gear and now, most of the department has two sets of gear, which is new. TT- Did you guys have gear extractors (giant washing machines specially designed for cleaning toxic gear)? DM- Yes, we have one in every station. TT- When did you get those? DM- I'd say five years ago? TT- Wow. Up until six months ago we only had one for the whole job. We got our first one like two years ago and no one used it at first. They were like, "Whatever." Couple guys downtown used it, but yeah, it started getting worse and worse. People started bringing in studies, especially about the exhaust from the trucks. So anyway, you had ten years on the job before you got new gear. And the exposure to everything as well, we're kind of a hearty bunch. I mean guys, and when I say I guys I of course mean men and women, don't really like wearing the air-packs if they don't need them, and it's usually the first thing we drop after a fire. Right? I'm assuming that's pretty universal. DM- Yes. I'm guilty of taking my mask off during overhaul. You run out of air, you can't see, you don't want to leave the building, all of that. I've taken it off. And it's a slight haze and you're coughing but it's no big deal. But that is actually, what we're finding is that that is the worst time to take it off because that is when it's releasing the most toxins, is during that overhaul phase, that smoldering phase. TT- Now let's talk about the toxins themselves. Ten years ago there weren't smart phones. People might have had a computer in their house but nowadays everyone has a laptop, iPads, phones on top of phones and sixty-inch flat screens. When these things burn they burn bad, and they release a lot of horrible things. Toxins and heavy metals. DM- Yes. And also building materials now, houses are not just wood frame anymore. They are, but they're treated with fire retardant chemicals, all the insulation that's there, all the plastic that furniture's made of now, it's not made of pure wood anymore. There're a lot of laminates, all of that releases chemicals when it's burning. TT- So like the IKEA stuff, anything that's not natural. DM- Yes. TT- The flame retardant that was applied to furniture and especially the kid's clothing, what else was it on? Can you tell me what else it was applied to other than furniture and clothes? DM- In carpeting, in the insulation, in a lot of the building materials, it's sprayed on everything. Now for building materials for like parking garages or something, that's not so bad. It's all contained. But in a couch, it's sprayed on the foam that's inside the cushion. Well, that breaks apart and releases those chemicals into the air, and now firefighters have three times those chemicals in their systems. You're being exposed at home, because every time you sit on the couch it releases, so you're breathing that in, and then when it's burning or smoldering you're absorbing all that through your skin as well. TT- Wow. DM- So right now we've been fighting at the state house, trying to ban these chemicals, a whole class of chemicals. We're the first state to try and ban a whole class of chemicals. Because if you just ban the three chemicals they use, the chemical companies will change one compound, so now it will still be cancer causing but it'll still comply with the law. So if you ban the whole class, now they can't do that. But so far we've testified four times and the bill keeps dying. We were hoping it would go through this year but it didn't. TT- Who's fighting this? Is it the chemical companies themselves that're fighting it? DM- Yeah, they're the opposition. On our side is the Clean Water Act, they're helping, and firefighters are helping as well. We have child advocates helping too because of all the childhood cancers. So there's a group of us. TT- Originally, these chemicals were embraced. The whole idea of fire retardants was almost mandated. DM- Yes. TT- I read somewhere that Boston and Massachusetts have the most amount of flame retardant chemicals and items in their homes. More than any other part of the country. DM- Yes. Well, it's like asbestos back in the day. It was great. It was a fire retardant, an insulator, used in all sorts of stuff, and now we realize how dangerous it is. Well, it's the same thing for these chemicals. Yeah, they were great, they retard the fire, but it's releasing all these chemicals. TT- When it gets to a certain temperature, these retardants even stop doing their job. As far as keeping the flames at bay. And they actually turn more combustible when they hit that flash point. Is that true? DM- Exactly. TT- Wow. DM- When they're smoldering ... the point of them is to, like if you fall asleep on the couch smoking a cigarette, it won't burst into flames. It'll just smolder so you can exit the building. Well, when it's smoldering it's releasing the most toxins, so now you're being overcome by these chemicals. It releases high levels of hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide, so you're gonna be overcome before you can leave the building. And it only lasts to a point. Eventually it's going to burst into flame. TT- Didn't you guys have a line of duty death due to cyanide? DM- An almost death. Yeah, he had to retire, he was on a ventilator for three days, but he ended up recovering. Still has issues with his lungs, but he won't be able to be near smoke at all anymore. TT- So they put him out on a disability pension? DM- Actually I don't know. I don't know for sure. He had enough years to retire regular but I don't know what he went off on, so I can't say that for certain. But they wouldn't promote him to chief because he went off injured. TT- And we have started to see it on our job. We just had a line of duty death--he was declared a line of duty death about three weeks ago, Dave Boisclair, just from the sheer cancer load in his body. He had it in his bones, liver, kidneys, blood, stage four on everything. We also have one active duty guy fighting leukemia, that just happened last month, two recent retirees--one had pancreatic cancer, another has liver cancer. (Also an active lieutenant fighting myeloma.) Talk about some of the cancers. I heard prostate cancer, bowel cancer, myeloma... DM- The top four for firefighters are testicular, prostate, lymphoma and multiple myeloma. But we also see everything. And what we're seeing is a lot of people are having very rare cancers. So something only one in a hundred get, or whatever the rate is, it's just very rare. So it's gotta be all these chemicals we're dealing with that're causing these rare cancers. TT- Now in women, is it the same? Obviously it's not going to be two of those cancers, but it might be breast cancer. I read somewhere that in San Francisco, twelve women out of 117 got breast cancer and one died. That's six times the national average. DM- It's crazy. TT- So as we talk about these chemicals, and the gung-ho attitude, obviously, when you do this job, you don't really...you take time to think about risk, you know, and you worry about things, but at the same time you're not going to run into anything that's on fire if you're worried about living. (laughs) TT- So, at the end of the day, when people are talking about chemicals, firemen aren't thinking about it until stuff like this starts to happen. And out of all the ways to get injured or killed, this seems to be a silent creeper. DM- Yes. TT- Now why don't we talk more about what happened in your case. As far as when did this start, and how did you notice something was going on? DM- I didn't notice anything at the time. Looking back I realized I had symptoms, but at the time I just excused it off. I was extremely tired all the time and I was losing weight, like I lost about twenty pounds, which I really couldn't afford to lose. But I was also on Engine 3, a busy engine, and I was also training for the Combat Challenge (the Firefighter Combat Challenge is not for the feint of heart. There are usually five events done in full turnout gear and wearing Scott air-packs. They're held in twenty-five locations around the world. http://www.firefighterchallenge.com/) We had a team and we traveled. And it was competition season, so I'm training. On every day off we did some heavy duty training, so I'm like, "That's why I'm losing all this weight. That's why I'm tired." So I took a week off. On my four days off I didn't do anything. No training, just rested, and I felt much better. Went back to work my first day and halfway through the day we go on an EMS run and I went to lift the patient, just assist to lift the stretcher, and my sternum fractured. Went to the hospital. They did X-rays, found a fracture, and they sent me to an orthopedist. Well, that's when they decided to do a Cat Scan. Because for my age, I was almost thirty-two at the time, my growth plates are done, and bones just don't break with that little bit of pressure. So, they wanted to see what was going on and that's when they found the tumor. TT- Thirty-two? So how long had you been on the job? DM- Five years. TT- So you got on at twenty-seven. DM- Yes. TT- So they do the Cat Scan, they find the cancer. What did they tell you? DM- Well, it was a shock when I walked in, because I just had a fracture. So they ... I went into the orthopedic office but he says, "We're gonna send you to a different doctor. It's in the same office, just a different doctor." So I didn't think anything of it. I'd only seen this guy one time, so they put my Cat Scan up on the wall and he says, "Well, this circle right here, that's the sarcoma." (Incredulous) And I just went, "You got the wrong patient. I got hurt at work." And he said that's why. The tumor had grown to such a size that just putting that little bit of pressure, it pushed it through, it fractured it. TT- So the tumor fractured the sternum. Was the cancer in the actual sternum itself? DM- Yes, it was right inside the middle of the bone. TT- I'm guessing that's an exceedingly rare cancer. DM- Yes. Very rare. It's called chondrosarcoma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondrosarcoma.) Usually Osteosarcoma is the bone cancer, so chondrosarcoma is very rare. TT- Jesus. What was the course of action? DM- The only treatment was removal. Usually they don't find it in a sternum. I was the first case in New England that they'd ever seen in the sternum. I belong to a site on Facebook and there's maybe only five of us in the world that we know of that had it in the sternum. TT- No kidding ...(incredulous.) DM- Usually it's in the pelvis, or a long bone, like the humerus or femur. Very rarely do they see it in the sternum. So usually amputation or removal of the bone is the only cure. TT- Are we talking about this column here being taken out? (motions to center of his own chest.) DM- Yes. I have the little tiny xyphoid process left. Everything else is a prosthetic. TT- What about the ribs? DM- They removed pieces of two ribs, because once the tumor broke through, it just started growing. It invaded into some of the rib. And just to get clean margins, they took a few of the ribs. So what they ended up doing was using bone cement and this plastic material called med-pore. The original one was a Gortex plastic which I rejected. I've had three surgeries on my chest. The first one, it was pushing out of me, so they had to remove that one. And then I went with no sternum for about seven years. TT- Whoa. DM- Because there was an infection behind it so they couldn't put a new prosthetic in after I rejected that first one. So they just kind of closed me back up, I had scar tissue there, bone cement holding all the ribs together. I did okay for years. Went back to work full duty, about six months after surgery. I was fine, but with all that carrying of air packs and hoses on my shoulders, it put a lot of pressure on my collarbones, because I didn't have that stability anymore. And a part of my heart was exposed, so my doctor wasn't really thrilled I went back to work. TT- Now, did you have to fight to get back to work? DM- The doctor didn't want it. TT- What did the department tell you? Did you have to fight them? DM- No, I didn't have to fight them. TT- So the first sternum was rejected, that was taken out, and then you had bone cement put in and you went seven years with that. Eventually that failed as well, right? DM- Yes. I ended up getting hurt again. I was carrying someone in a stair chair and they panicked and their knee slid down and landed on my chest, fractured my collarbone. They found another tumor in there. So they removed that tumor, it was benign, so we caught it in time. But my whole chest was failing. My collarbones had a lot of bone spurs in them and they were flexing too much, more than collar bones should, so they had to reconstruct my whole chest again. This was about three years ago. TT- What did they put in this time? DM- This time it's called Med-pore. It's a very porous plastic so your own tissue can grow through it, so it helps with rejection. And they can mold it the way they want to mold it. I guess it's easier for them to work with. And they bolted that in with titanium, so it wasn't going anywhere, the ribs are all bolted in. It's very stable now. TT- And that was three years ago? DM- Yes. TT- So after that happened, what happened at work? Did the doctors say enough is enough? Your body can't take anymore? DM- They just left it up to me. But this time I was having a hard time getting back. Because they had to cut my pectoral muscle. It's connected to your sternum. Every time I had surgery, they had to cut it away, pull it across, and sew it back to together. Every surgery they cut that muscle. The third time it just wouldn't heal. And I was also having a lot of pain in my collar bone, which I still do. I have a lot of spurs in there and a pinched nerve as well. I don't know, I guess I could go back into to surgery to relieve that pressure, but I don't want to go for another surgery. TT- Jesus. DM- I've had four on my chest as it is. But they tried everything. They tried taking tissue, stem cells from my legs to put in there, to kind of give me some more padding, relieve some of the pressure, but it didn't take the pain away. They tried Botox throughout my chest, cortisone shots, so that got me back to full duty, but once it would wear off I'd be in extreme pain again. So they finally said no more after the third cortisone shot. I was back to work for about a year and a half when I finally had to throw in the towel and retire. TT- You retired with how many years on? DM- Fifteen. TT- Did you go out on a disability (pension)? DM- Yes. I went under the Cancer Presumptive Law. TT- That's still something that's in its formative stages now, this cancer law for firemen, that's allowing firemen to be covered... DM- Luckily in Providence ... Originally it was just a state presumptive law. So one of our guys--I had just been diagnosed, so it was like twelve years ago? He needed to retire after having bladder cancer, and they wouldn't allow him to retire under the presumptive law because they said, "We're our own Home Rule Charter, we're separate, we don't fall under the state." We had to fight it separately. I helped fight for that at the time, and we won, and the wording in it is so well-written, it was cut and dry when I went through it. I had to see three oncologists that the city chose, I went to each of these oncologists, they wrote their report, and all of them--actually one of them even said there was no doubt in his mind that it was a job related illness. TT- The story I had heard was that you were actually able to trace it back to a specific fire. Is that true? DM- Yes. I don't know a hundred percent for sure, but I went to a chemical fire. It was a jewelry company, so they had all kinds of chemicals. TT- We're talking fifty-gallon drums. DM- Yes. And it was a workbench on fire. It was heating up the room and allowing these chemicals to escape. So we knocked it down really quick, it was just a small room. I had full gear on, I had my pack on, everything on except the hood. We did not wear hoods back then. But later on in the day, I broke out in like hives, these welts, all across my neck and chest. Big red welts. And the chief actually happened to notice it. "What's all over your neck?" So I washed up, changed my shirt, went on with my day. By the end of the day it was better. The next morning I come in. We go on a box alarm, I put my gear on, and a little later on I broke out in that same rash. So I exposed myself twice. It was my fault for not washing my gear after that fire, so I ended up showering, washing my clothes, washing everything, washing all my gear. It went away and I didn't think anything of it until a year later when I was diagnosed with cancer right in that area. TT- So this is two exposures. That's all it took. Incredible. DM- Yes. TT- Wow. That's terrifying. DM- Because it was some nasty chemical. TT- Who knows what was in that place. (metalizing agents are extremely caustic, toxic, and filled with cancer causing compounds). DM- And when chemicals mix they make new chemicals... TT- Yeah, man, wow. So when all of this was going on--I'm assuming you're married? DM- Yes. TT- What was your husband's thinking on all of this? Did he want you to keep going back to work? DM- (laughs). I think he wanted whatever I wanted, but I think he was worried, definitely. TT- I'm sure. DM- But he knew it was something I had to do for myself, and if I wanted to go back, he would support me either way. TT- On your department, are there any cancer numbers right now? As far as active duty guys, retired guys ...? DM- I don't know the numbers because I don't hear all of them, unless they call me ... TT- They're that bad? DM- Especially with the retired guys, but the active duty guys will call me through the cancer network, but some of them, they just don't want anybody to know. They just suffer through it. TT- So the retiree numbers are through the roof? DM- Probably, yeah. I still do the Honor Guard, so I go to every funeral, and I would say eighty percent through the years, I would say were cancer. Some of them are older, in their eighties, so they actually lived a long time, but they died from cancer. So is that old age? Or from firefighting? We don't know yet. But when you're seeing guys in their fifties dying of it, or even younger, you know it's job-related. TT- That's scary as hell DM- Yes. TT- I had read an article about a Boston Chief, who was on the job thirty-two years, and could claim that he personally knew 200 hundred guys who either got cancer or died from it. That is terrifying. DM- Yes. TT- So outside of the retardants, I mean, in your opinion, where do you think this goes? Are there other things out there to worry about now? DM- It's just all the plastics that are burning. Everything's plastics now. TT- Everything's plastic, everything breaks, so it's just more plastic after that. DM (laughs)- Yes. TT- What's the official name of the group you're in? DM- The Firefighter Cancer Support Network. ( https://firefightercancersupport.org/. ) TT- What do you guys do? DM- We have a mentor program, that's our biggest thing that we do. So any firefighter that's diagnosed throughout the country, because it's a nationwide organization, they just go to our website or give us a call, and we will hook you up with a mentor. Now this mentor is a firefighter from anywhere across the country, that is a cancer survivor. So we try to match people. If you have lymphoma, we try to match you with someone as close to where you live as possible that has lymphoma. TT- So this person will give you their roadmap as to how they got better? DM- Yes. TT- And what they should be doing (for treatment) as well. DM- It's an outlet, too. Gives you someone to vent to. This person already went through what you're starting to go through, so they can say, "Yes, this is normal, what you're going through is normal." And it's not just the physical part of it, but the emotional part of it that a lot of people forget about. You're going through the fear of it all, the anxiety, "Am I going to be able to go back to work? Am I weak if I don't?" All of that stuff. And it's tough when you're a caregiver. We take care of everyone. We solve all of the problems. And now you're on the other side and you're the patient. It's really hard to deal with. You're used to being in control and now you're not. So trying to deal with all of that, this person understands exactly what you're going through. In every aspect. So it's a really good outlet, and sometimes you just need someone to say, "I've been there. What you're feeling is normal." TT- You're not alone. DM- Yeah. TT- Now when you got involved with this group, were you staggered by the numbers you were seeing? And what is your role in that group? What do you do? DM- Right now I'm the Rhode Island State Director and Vice President of the East Coast. I've been there for eight years. So when we first started out, there were a lot of numbers, there was a need for us, that's why we started this. But over the years it has gotten so much worse. TT- Wow. DM- I don't know if it's because now people know about us so they're calling us? Whereas before they just sort of suffered in silence? I don't know. So I don't know if the numbers were there and we just weren't tracking them, or if now we're really on top of it and we're aware. TT- The sea-change, probably the mid 90's as far as all of the technology stuff (iPads, laptops, cell phones, flat screens), and the plastic stuff, I can remember growing up and our house wasn't filled with all of this crap either. So it seems like from the mid-90's on, the group of firemen that were straddling those generations seems to be coming down sick now. DM- Yes. TT- And the young guys coming through now have thirty years of this exposure to look forward to. They don't even have the ten or fifteen years before all of this toxic stuff started being incorporated into every aspect of our daily lives. DM- Yes. TT- Now, when we talk about all of the different cancers, are they all being brought in under the same umbrella no matter what cancer it is? DM- We're trying. Some states go by research. So the research we have out there says, "Ok, these cancers are the top four." Or these are the top ten. So they're using that but it should encompass all cancers because we're getting all sorts of cancers. They're saying, well some are genetic, some are not, but you don't know if chemicals caused this genetic mutation, or if it was because your father, your brother, and everyone else had it. We just don't know. It shouldn't matter. You're still getting it at a younger age. You're being exposed. TT- Now, it sounds easy enough to clean the gear in those machines, and we should tell people you can't just throw this stuff in a regular washing machine. This has got to go in a special Washer/dryer setup to get the chemicals out of it. And then take those chemicals somewhere so those chemicals won't be in the environment. True? DM- Yea, I didn't think of that. Once it goes through the extractor, it's just going the same route as every other washing machine. TT- Now once this stuff--you can clean your hood, you can clean your gear, but what about the helmets? The inside of the helmets? DM- Yes, you definitely want to wipe them down. You can use a disinfectant wipe or some kind of wet cloth and soap and just clean the inside out. TT- I had heard a story that a guy actually got skin cancer in a ring around his head. From the webbing of his helmet. DM- Yes. TT- That's true? DM- Yes. He had lymphoma. He was on the job in Providence. TT- Wow. That's crazy. DM- Yup. You can see the ring, I mean it's perfect, right where his helmet sat. So all of those years--you don't think of cleaning the inside of your helmet (laughs). You think, "Okay, I washed my gear." But that's part of your gear, and you don't really think of it that way. It's not cloth. But the earflaps, you want to wash those, basically anything that touches your skin. If not, you're just exposing yourself constantly. TT- And the insides of the trucks. DM- Yes. TT- Some of our trucks are very old. I should say that they are gradually replacing the fleet. but we have trucks that are thirty years old. God knows what's in those things. DM- Yeah. TT- Cause we have some guys, we actually had one guy that recently retired with only thirteen years. The no sleeping, the bad food. He just didn't feel good anymore. He was in his forties and he said, "You know what? I'm done." And guys were like thinking he was crazy. "Oh, what're you doing? You're not gonna have your health plan, you're not gonna have a retirement." And he's like whatever. Now all these guys are like, "Well, he might be the smartest one out of all of us." (Laughs). Now as far as the actual cleaning of the gear, the thing that blows my mind is that when you come out of a fire, you're literally covered in everything. You come walking out covered in-- DM- Insulation, building materials, TT- Everything. You're soaked. You're immediately being exposed, and while you're sitting on scene, it's just seeping into you. And you think about the guys who never cleaned their gear ever, not one time, after every fire it just adds more and more toxins. Their gear has to be a toxic soup by this point. DM- Yes. And when your body temperature rises you're absorbing all of that into your system. So on scene the best you can do is wash that off as fast as you can. In the middle of winter you're gonna turn into an icicle, so you try to do a dry decon--wash all of that insulation and heavy soot off of you. And we have wipes on scene now, the canteen carries rescue wipes. I got a grant from the Rhode Island Foundation for $14,000. And now I can supply the canteen truck with--it's probably gonna end up being a two year supply of wipes. TT- And for people that don't know, the canteen truck is actually funded by firemen, and it shows up at fires with food and water to help keep the guys going. The canteen guys man the scanners. I think there's two of them? DM- There's two. I think they might have a third as a back-up. TT- And those guys are great. They show up in the middle of the night, in the winter, wherever. DM- And they've been pushing the wipes. I went in there and told them all about the wipes, what they do, why they're important, and now they push them at every fire. Before the guys can get any food or drink, they hand them these wipes. TT- What about boots? I know our gear covers them so nothing can get down there, but are they telling people to clean the inside of their boots too? DM- That is probably a good idea. The soot's gonna get in there. These chemicals are seeping in through the gear, even though you're covered. They say clean your neck, clean your face, whatever's exposed, but it's still seeping through all of the turnout gear. There's actually a test that they did where they sprayed someone with an aerosol spray and then put them under a blacklight after the fact. Now they sprayed him when he had his full gear on, and then he went down to just his shorts afterwards and they showed he was exposed across his entire body. TT- Get out of here. DM- It was most prominent on his neck, wrist, face, but it was still on the entire body. So we know that it's seeping through. So getting that heavy soot off the neck area, the wrist, hands, all of that on scene is good, but as soon as you get back to the station shower right away. Keep your uniforms at work, don't bring them home, clean them there as well. TT- When you think about it, the job is dangerous enough. If you do a career and get out of it without a back injury or heart attack, now you still have to worry about the cancer. DM- Yes. TT- Our job is very slow to change. There are stories of guys, when they initially brought air-packs on in like the 50's and 60's, it took ten years for these guys to even wear them. Change is a glacial pace. But after you came to our job in March or April, and I returned from my broken leg, I came back and saw guys cleaning gear like I'd never seen before. I think we scored a grant and went out and got another gear extractor and dryer. So we have two sets now when we actually need six. And we have guys, guys are going out of their way--my boss' brother (a Cranston firefighter for twenty years) just died from bowel cancer, and my boss has been on the point of this the whole time. And people have been calling him crazy. I remember like five years ago he stood up at a union meeting, yelling at people for not putting on the Plymo vents for the truck exhaust every time they pulled in or out of the station. The diesel fumes. He was like, "We're just poisoning ourselves." This change has to take place until people realize that this is not a joke. We have two extractors now, but I hope before this is over there will be a set at every station. DM- There are grants out there, the FEMA grants are great. I went down there to learn how to write them. So I've been trying to teach people how to write these FEMA grants. TT- The plastics, there's no end to that, the houses are just being filled with plastics, so when I think long range, and look out ten to fifteen years, when all of these other guys start getting sick, and these cities are gonna have to pay for all of these disability pensions, gear extractors, I mean will it get to a point where they're not sending anybody in anymore unless there's someone in there that they know of? Who knows? I guess that gets determined by how many people continue to get sick. DM- I don't see that happening in Providence. I think they'll still fight fires the same way, I think it's just taking the precautions after the fact. TT- Do you think the precautions are gonna work? DM- The best we can. It's just like any other safety issue, you know you could walk in and the roof could collapse. You just gotta be as safe as you can about it, to make sure they're rehabbing guys, taking them out so they're not taking their mask off during overhaul, washing the gear, and going to the cities and saying, "Ok, you want to prevent these disabilities, than supply us with extractors, supply us with a second set of gear, get yearly physicals for all the guys, so we can stay on top of these wellness programs. If you do all of that, it's going to help prevent this." Or even catch it early. TT- And these injuries, this is not cheap--I can only use my example, I had a horrific back injury lifting a 550 pound woman on a 175 pound stretcher. I was out less than a year, but I can't imagine the cost to the city. Paying to replace my spot, paying me, paying the doctors and therapists, I'm guessing $200,000 maybe but I have no idea. That wasn't chemo, that wasn't radiation, that wasn't the rehab ... these cancer costs are going to go through the roof. DM- That's why we're just trying to show them, it's so much cheaper just to get a second set of gear for all the guys. How hard is it to do that? And that's gonna be a huge prevention because you're not wearing dirty gear again. Sometimes you're forced into wearing it because you can't wash your gear in the middle of a shift. You could get another fire two hours later. It happens. So what're you gonna do? "Oh, I have no gear, I can't go in." (laughs). You need that second set so you can switch them out and not be exposed over and over again. TT- Now we're talking about $3,000 per person for new gear. DM- Yes. Maybe going up to five if you're getting hoods, gloves, everything. TT- So $3,000 compared to $300,000 doesn't even seem like a question. Now is there anything else you can think of, as far as what you would tell people? I mean your story is self-explanatory--clean everything. DM- The biggest thing is going to your doctor every year. Get a physical. If the department doesn't have it or supply it, push to get that. TT- Are you talking blood work? DM- Just a basic physical, your EKGs, your blood work, check out any symptom you might have going on, let the doctor know what you do for a living. They don't quite understand it, but we do have a letter, which I have for you. It's from a doctor in Boston. He was a Boston firefighter, now he's a doctor. He wrote a letter saying what we're being exposed to, all the chemicals, the stress we're putting on our bodies, the lack of sleep, he explains all of that, and then has a list of what these doctors should be checking for. A lot of it is a little bit of a wish list because the insurance company's not going to pay for some of this stuff, but at least it's a jumping off point. And the more these doctors are seeing this and why we need these tests, maybe they'll help us fight the insurance companies and say, "I think this guy needs this." Say for women, you can't get a mammogram until you're forty. We're seeing women dying in their twenties and thirties from breast cancer on the job. So if we can get it at least ten years younger, the same with a colonoscopy. For someone to go through colon cancer, I think it costs $400,000. Well a colonoscopy costs $5,000. And yes, that's a hefty bill, but compared to someone going through colon cancer you may find that right away, you could remove it really quick, and that's it. A one day procedure and now you're all set. TT- This almost seems like the CTE thing in football, you know? There's a couple voices shouting out of the darkness that something bad's coming and it seems like we haven't even touched what's gonna really happen. Which, honestly, scares the hell out of everybody. And I'm not someone that scares easy. You take the job, you accept the risks, but even I was like "I have to clean this stuff now. This isn't a joke, this isn't a couple of people or some kind of conspiracy theory about chemicals. This is real. This is about as real as it gets." Now when you give these talks at other departments, do you get these kind of reactions? Are people listening to you? DM- Now they are. When I started years ago I got all sorts of push back from it. We had a flier that said to wash your hands after a fire before you went into the bathroom so you don't contaminate the bathroom. Wash before. So I had a guy say to me, "Oh well, little girl, if that's what you're worried about you're in the wrong field." (Laughs). Well, if you stopped and listened to the reasons why, maybe it would make more sense. I heard a lot of that, a lot of, "That's part of the job." I get it. It's not a safe job. I'm not denying that. It's just we need to change some of the way we do things. Take care of ourselves a little better. Eat right, work out, a lot of guys don't do that. I see how guys eat in the firehouse. TT- (laughs) Right? It can be terrifying. (laughs). DM- Some guys haven't been to the doctor in years. And they don't want to know. Well, if you catch it early enough ... early detection is probably the biggest thing. It's inevitable. One in three firefighters will be diagnosed with cancer. If you-- TT- That's the number? (horrified) One in three? (incredulous). Oh my God. That's pretty bad. DM- Yes. TT- Jesus. And these numbers just keep going up and up right? Like we haven't even hit a plateau yet, we're just climbing. DM- Yes. And like I said, I don't know if it's because more and more are being diagnosed, or if we're just aware of these numbers now, I don't know. But I think it's just going up because of the change in all of these building chemicals. But hopefully they'll start going down if we make these changes. It's never gonna prevent all of it. But like I said, early detection is gonna make it a lot less invasive and deadly. More lifesaving. TT- And your story as well. You did five years before all of this nightmare started happening. Five years. Out of a possible thirty year career, I mean think about all the further exposures if you would have stayed. That's the terrifying part. It could happen to any of us real quick or not. Like what happened to you by getting splashed with a solvent--who knows? I mean we go running into these places, and you're trying to think about safety, but you're not a chemist, you don't know what the roster of chemicals inside are, you're just doing your job. DM- Yes. TT- Looking back, I know you probably don't have any regrets because you were just doing your job, and you loved it, you were a fireman. That was never gonna change. DM- No. No way. I have people ask me all the time, "So knowing what you went through, would you do it all again?" And I say, absolutely. I would make some changes, but I loved the job more than anything. TT- Right? You can't help it. It's the greatest job in the world. DM- It killed me. This whole past year I went through a depression over having to retire. That killed me. I fought for so long to stay on, I just couldn't do it anymore. TT- I hear ya. And the guys that fight to get back from whatever's happened to them, when they come back, and not that they didn't have an appreciation of it, but we have a guy who literally broke his back. He signed a waiver to return to work, that's how much he wanted to return. DM- Yes. TT- This is another part of the story, your example. This isn't about jumping on and off fire trucks, this is the real life stuff, the when you go home stuff, when your family's affected, your husband's affected. You don't hear about that at the academy. I don't remember any cancer talks at all and I've only been on eight years, so it's all relatively new. DM- It is. I've been slowly going around to all of the departments and teaching at the academy, the Rhode Island State Fire Academy. And I'm gonna be training all of their instructors, so every Firefighter Level I class will have a cancer program in there. TT- The only thing I can tell you, is thank you. Because the affect you've had on a 136 guys is already immeasurable, and it only took two months. That's how fast this has started. I'm telling you guys are cleaning everything. DM- That's great. That's great to hear. TT- So whatever you're doing is working. And on behalf of everyone else that's heard your story, I just hope that you keep going forward with this and bringing awareness to people, and especially the public, that don't know about fire departments, so that they understand that this isn't a bunch of people just trying to get covered. That this is part of the job now. This is as bad as getting burned at a fire or hit by a car on the highway, or the 500 pound person you're carrying down the stairs, this is all in that same category. DM- In the beginning, when I first started telling this story, like you said, the physical part, that's easy to talk about. But the other stuff, that's hard to discuss. I wrote a story for Fire/Rescue Magazine. They asked me to do it. So I said, "If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna lay it all out there." And I was nervous, because it's firefighters. Your peers. You don't know what kind of response you're gonna get. But it was all positive. I just kind of laid everything out, every feeling, every fact, and it was scary but it worked. I had a lot of people contact me and say they went through the same thing, or were going through the same thing. So that's why it's worth doing. TT- It's an eye opening story, I'll tell you that. I'm glad you survived it. DM- (Laughs) So far so good. (Laughs) TT- If you think of anything else, give me a call. And if not, thank you. It's been an honor. The interview ends. I turned the tape off. But as I walked Donna out she told me her particular cancer has a 60% chance of recurring. And it usually comes back after laying dormant, sometimes up to fifteen years later, or even longer. When it does come back it's the same bone cancer, but this time it now appears in the lungs, so you can't even treat it as a lung cancer. It's a bone cancer in your lungs, which makes it fatal. She always has this in the back of her mind. She's also mentoring a Maryland firefighter, a female who has just been diagnosed with the same cancer. She just had her humerus taken out and is now facing the same fight. Here's a list of chemicals 150 countries are trying to ban: http://chm.pops.int/TheConvention/ThePOPs/AllPOPs/tabid/2509/Default.aspx All POPs listed in the Stockholm Convention The chemicals targeted by the Stockholm Convention are listed in the annexes of the convention text: Annex A (Elimination) Parties must take measures to eliminate the production and use of the chemicals listed under Annex A. Specific exemptions for use or production are listed in the Annex and apply only to Parties that register for them. Aldrin Chlordane Chlordecone Decabromodiphenyl ether (commercial mixture, c-decaBDE Dieldrin Endrin Heptachlor Hexabromobiphenyl Hexabromocyclododecane (HBCDD) Hexabromodiphenyl ether and heptabromodiphenyl ether Hexachlorobenzene (HCB) Hexachlorobutadiene Alpha hexachlorocyclohexane Beta hexachlorocyclohexane Lindane Mirex Pentachlorobenzene Pentachlorophenol and its salts and esters Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) Polychlorinated naphthalenes Short-chain chlorinated paraffins (SCCPs) Technical endosulfan and its related isomers Tetrabromodiphenyl ether and pentabromodiphenyl ether Toxaphene In 2014, the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (N.I.O.S.H.) published the results of a cross-department study with members from the Chicago, Philadelphia and San Francisco Fire Departments that served from 1950-2009. Of 19,309 firemen, there were 1,333 cancer deaths, and 2,609 cancer incidents: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/updates/upd-10-17-13.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/firefighters/pdfs/Daniels-et-al-(2015).pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/firefighters/pdf/dahm_et_al_2015.pdf Here's what's in your cellphone when it burns: https://www.e-cycle.com/cell-phone-toxins-and-the-harmful-effects-on-the-human-body-when-recycled-improperly/ Lead is found in a wide variety of cell phone components including the circuit boards, batteries and as a stabilizer in PVC products. Lead exposure can cause damage to the reproductive, blood and nervous systems. Mercury is used in the cell phone’s battery, crystal displays and circuit boards. A single cell phone contains up to 2 grams of mercury. Mercury exposure contributes to brain and kidney damage. Arsenic is found in the microchips of many electronic devices including mobile phones. In high doses, arsenic poisoning is lethal. Low levels of exposure cause negative impacts on skin, liver, nervous and respiratory systems. Cadmium is used in the battery of a cell phone. It is associated with deficits in cognition, learning, behavior and neuromotor skills in children. It has also been linked to kidney damage. Chlorine is a component of plastics used in cell phones, specifically polyvinyl chloride (PVC). PVC makes up about 30% of the cell phone. Exposure to improperly disposed chlorine causes tissue damage and the destruction of cell structure. Bromine is a component in a group of fire retardant chemicals known as brominated flame retardants. It is associated with cognitive and developmental deficits. Studies have shown that bromine contributes to the disruption in the thyroid hormone balance, brain damage and cancer. Flatscreen TV's have 19 known carcinogens. But these are even worse: https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/69b35967-108e-4e6d-9ffe-5992819f4290/Chemicals%20in%20electronics_GP%20briefing.pdf Berylium, Cadmium, Chromium Hexavalent, Lead, Mercury, Brominated flame retardants, polyvinyl Chloride, phthalates
0 Comments
Leave a Reply. |
AuthorTom Trabulsi was born in the Midwest, attended high school in Rhode Island, and graduated from Boston University with a degree in American History. He was a bike courier in Boston and New York City, worked construction in the mountain west and east coast, and is currently a firefighter in a northeast city. Archives
August 2022
Categories |